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Last week's poll on the pronunciation of "ogle" was illuminating (click 'pollage' tag to see it, as DW and LJ polls are separate). I'll admit that I always thought the "oggle" pronunciation was plain old mispronunciation but I did check the online OED before posting the poll, which gave "oggle" as a secondary pronunciation. I think it called it out as primarily American, but I can't double-check as the database isn't loading for me at the moment (and with the construction in the library I have no idea where the dictionaries are currently located!).

Anyway! As it's too confusing to work up a poll (and tedious to post it separately on DW and LJ since the two systems don't crosspost polls), I'm just asking you:
how do you pronounce "ogle" and where did you pick it up?
I'm "oh-gle," to rhyme with "mogul," and most likely got it from central Texas, where I grew up.


(I still think "oggle" and "oogle" are COMPLETELY WRONG but it's a free country and you are entitled to disagree. I mean, you'll still be wrong.)

EDIT: The OED is back up for me! Yup, it says "oggle" is American:
Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈəʊɡl/ , U.S. /ˈoʊɡ(ə)l/ , /ˈɑɡ(ə)l/
Although I suppose I should have added "uggle" to the poll as a fourth option!
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U.S. based. Quiz that asks you 25 questions about your word usage, and then shows you where your dialect seems to come from. It thinks I'm generically Southern: http://nyti.ms/1jFM0rz Toby took it and it pegged him as north Texas. Neither of us has the stereotypical Texas or Southern drawl, although it seems we ahve the dialect. :) People tend to say "You don't sound like you're from Texas!" but that's ebcause they don't realize that the drawl they're thinking of tends to come from the more rural areas of tehs tate and urban Texans are a bit more Midwest-y.

There was one guy at a museum I used to work at who said "I knew you were from Texas! There's a little lilt at the end of your sentences!"

Didn't have the heart to tell him I picked that up in Denver.
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When it comes to the chives/green onions debate, Jason's Deli's online ordering system really isn't helping any.



I suppose they don't want to take sides. ;)

P.S. The fully-loaded large potato is on the order of 2400 calories. Just in case you were tempted. And it comes with the green parts of green onions.
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Thanks for all the comments on the previous post about dialect differences when using "chives" vs. "green onions." Between here and Facebook, it's been rather interesting, and there seems to be a strong U.S. Southern influence in using "chives."

Essentially, people from Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, and Louisiana have reported using the term "chives" to refer to green onions, and a couple from Texas have specified that in their dialect, when the bulb and green stems are together, they're green onions, but when the green tops are removed, the tops become chives.

We also called Toby's mom last night to confirm and by a stroke of luck it turned out his parents were visiting family, so we confirmed that her sister, who also grew up in Kentucky, calls them chives. Toby's dad, who grew up in Florida, calls them chives,, but can't remember if he always called them that or if he picked it up from Toby's mom.
telophase: (Near - que?)
In your dialect of English, what foodstuff/s does "chive" refer to? What area of the world/nation did you pick it up from?

cut for context )
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The African language Supyire from Mali has five genders: humans, big things, small things, collectives, and liquids. Bantu languages such as Swahili have up to ten genders, and the Australian language Ngan’gityemerri is said to have fifteen different genders, which include, among others, masculine human, feminine human, canines, non-canine animals, vegetables, drinks, and two different genders for spears (depending on size and material).

Deutscher, Guy (2010-08-31). Through the Language Glass: Why the World Looks Different in Other Languages (Kindle Locations 3231-3234). Henry Holt and Co.. Kindle Edition.
Man, I love how weird languages are. (Also: English is pretty weird, at least as far as the 2600+ languages in the database studied in that link go! Ranks at #33 weirdest language in their data set, where "weirdest" means "most unusual features, comparatively," and gendered languages are not all that weird, really. SO I'M THE WEIRD ONE, NOT THE LANGUAGES IN THE QUOTE.)

Anyway, I'm a bit over halfway through the book quoted above, and enjoying it. I don't think people with a lot of knowledge about linguistics will find anything they didn't know in it; it's aimed a bit more at people with a passing interest in languages, but who aren't familiar with much of the major thought in the field. He spends quite a lot of time explaining now-discredited theories about how language shaped thinking and showing how those theories don't hold up to the evidence before starting into ways that it does shape thought and human experience. For example: languages in which directions are given geographically--as when you're describing two objects on a table in relation to each other, do you say "The pen is next to/to the right of the Post-Its," or do you say "The pen is west of the Post-Its"? People who grow up speaking geographic languages have a sort of perfect pitch for directions that those of us who grew up with other languages don't, and it seems pretty sure that because of the way the language forces you to specify those directions, your behavior and thinking adapt to it.

Anyway, that's as far as I've gotten right now. So far so good, and I loved the genders in the languages above. (And he finally explained to my satisfaction why we use "gender" -- it's an older meaning of the term, referring to categories and types in general. Referring to biological or social sex is a meaning that came later.)
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The results of my informal poll of y'all and of my in-laws, about what you call eggs fried in the hole in a piece of bread, and where you came from:

Kentucky - eggs in a nest, toad in the hole
Maryland - toad in a hole
Michigan - egg in a frame
New Jersey - egg in the hole
New York City - Georgia Eggs
Oregon, NE - toad in the wall (the extra pieces of bread are toad's eyes)
Philadelphia/New Jersey - eggs in a basket
South Dakota - one-eyed sandwiches
Texas, central - house on a hill
Texas, south - Popeye eggs
Toronto - toad in the hole
Internet, cookbooks, and unspecified - ox-eye, egg in a basket, Gypsy Eggs, Egyptian Eggs, Toad in the Hole

The Kentucky ones are from my mother-in-law. My own mom grew up in West and North Texas and doesn't recall ever eating the dish until I found it and started cooking it.

edit: Also, my father-in-law reports that they called it French toast! We made sure to clarify with him that you didn't dip the bread in the egg, but fried an egg in the hole. I've forgotten where he grew up, though.
telophase: (Near - que?)
I just started reading the scanlations of Silver Spoon, the current manga by the Fullmetal Alchemist mangaka. It's about an academically gifted young man who goes to an agricultural high school far, far away to get the hell away from his family and the relentless academic grind, and discovers that it's not exactly the walk in the park that he was expecting. :)

Anyway, he's at the horse races (the girl he's crushing on says she owns horses that are racing) and they're talking about a certain kind of horse and race, ban'ei, in which a breed of Japanese draft horses pulls sledges over a course.

On this page, one of the characters explains "Ban'ei races are the only ones in the world where the horses pull something." Which is patently false, as I've been to the track in Louisville, Kentucky, and bet on* witnessed harness racing, where they pull a two-wheeled cart.

I don't currently have a copy of the page in the original Japanese, nor could I read it if I did, so the question is: is it translated accurately, and the mangaka doesn't know (or doesn't care) that harness racing exists, or is there a semantic difference involved, with the original term used making a distinction between the actions of "pulling" and "dragging"? I think that if I were rewriting that sentence, I'd use "drag," to indicate the action is different than pulling a cart, but it's entirely possible the translator had no idea that harness racing exists and chose the wrong word for the circumstances.




* During a high school trip, no less! The teacher took us to the track! And said those of us who were 18 could bet if we wanted! I made a series of $2 bets, winning some and losing some, and lost about $15 total over the course of the evening, which was a good amount of money to spend for the entertainment value.
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So far the results of the "human" vs. "yooman" pronunciation question have been interesting. Nobody admits to saying "yooman," although there seem to be some slight differences in accent between "hyooman" and "hooman."

The two people that Toby and I hear say "yooman" the most are Seth Shostak on the Big Picture Science podcast and Robert Scheer, the liberal guy on the Left, Right and Center podcast. Alas, I cannot link you to any short snippets for examples; you'll just have to download one or the other podcast and hope one or the other says the word.

What we find interesting is that there seems to be a California connection between the two, although that may be coincidence (certainly a sample of 2 is not statistically significant). Although they both went to grad school in California and live there now, according to their bios, they were both raised on the other side of the country: Shostak in Virginia and Scheer in New York. (And their surnames both begin with S, although I'm reasonably sure we can discount that as a factor.)

Anyway, hopefully someone out there who reads my LJ/DW and who says "yooman" exists and will discourse upon the subject, so I don't have to subject you all to a phone post of me attempting to pronounce the word both ways to check that the people saying what sounds like "yooman" to my ears are just under-aspirating the H and hear it themselves!

Dialect

May. 6th, 2011 03:48 pm
telophase: (Kyo - say what?)
Someone on AskMeFi is asking about names for popular/vapid/fashion-obsessed girls from your youth, and the time and location of such term.

I couldn't believe nobody had posted "bowhead" until I did so, but from subsequent replies. it seems to have been primarily a Southern and Texas thing.

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