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Photo ref
I know that most of you have better things to do on a Friday night than read LJ, but hey. At any rate, I dunno how many of you already know, but ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rachelmanija and I are working on a next thing - a 20-40 page short story to submit to an anthology, and because I didn't want to draw trenchcoats again for a while, among other things, we're doing a sort of fantasy thing that we like to refer to as Gay Tibetan Martial Artists.*
If you're interested in How It All Happened, you can read her blog entry about it here.
At any rate, I'm starting to collect images for reference and inspiration, and if any of you feel like wielding a little Google-fu, here's the sort of thing I'm looking for.
Mountains. But not general pretty scenery mountains. I've got plenty of images of dramatic snow blowing off Everest and the like. What I need is photos that are a little more intimate - trekking in the mountains, mountain paths, and so on. And not really forested Apalachian-type mountians. I need dramatic, unforgiving, tough Himalayan or Andean type mountain terrain shots. Crevasses and gorges = Good. Snow = Good. Rocky terrain = Good. The sort of place where almost the only living creature ismad dogs and Englishmen mountain goats and idiotic mountaineers. I don't need dramatic long-distance scenery shots. I need to know how to draw people actually walkign on trails, so I need photos of trails and climbers on walls and stuff that are close enough to allow me to draw them. I can't do all the pages with teh images all at a distance of half a mile. If you're not sure what I mean, ask.
Tibetan, Nepali, and Bhutanese moasteries, temples, and other buildings. As well as people and clothing. If you can find some shots of the beautiful old buildings - I think it may be a temple complex - in Kathmandu, so much the better.
Images and video of someone wielding a chain whip. (It's a weapon of a rope or chain with a weight on one end - in Shanghai Knights, Jackie Chan improvises one with a length of rope and a horseshoe.) Images and video of interesting Central Asian weapons, especally ones that aren't that well-known. If anyone can find proof that the Tibetan dorje and the axe known as the Ego Chopper and other symbolic weapons were actually used as real weapons, I LOVE YOU LONG TIME FIVE DOLLAS. (Caveat: not from the lionsroar.com site. I'm trying to corroborate their info.)
I'll post as I think of other things.
* Again with the gay, because it's a yaoi/boys'love-themed market we're going to be submitting to.
rachelmanija and I are working on a next thing - a 20-40 page short story to submit to an anthology, and because I didn't want to draw trenchcoats again for a while, among other things, we're doing a sort of fantasy thing that we like to refer to as Gay Tibetan Martial Artists.*If you're interested in How It All Happened, you can read her blog entry about it here.
At any rate, I'm starting to collect images for reference and inspiration, and if any of you feel like wielding a little Google-fu, here's the sort of thing I'm looking for.
Mountains. But not general pretty scenery mountains. I've got plenty of images of dramatic snow blowing off Everest and the like. What I need is photos that are a little more intimate - trekking in the mountains, mountain paths, and so on. And not really forested Apalachian-type mountians. I need dramatic, unforgiving, tough Himalayan or Andean type mountain terrain shots. Crevasses and gorges = Good. Snow = Good. Rocky terrain = Good. The sort of place where almost the only living creature is
Tibetan, Nepali, and Bhutanese moasteries, temples, and other buildings. As well as people and clothing. If you can find some shots of the beautiful old buildings - I think it may be a temple complex - in Kathmandu, so much the better.
Images and video of someone wielding a chain whip. (It's a weapon of a rope or chain with a weight on one end - in Shanghai Knights, Jackie Chan improvises one with a length of rope and a horseshoe.) Images and video of interesting Central Asian weapons, especally ones that aren't that well-known. If anyone can find proof that the Tibetan dorje and the axe known as the Ego Chopper and other symbolic weapons were actually used as real weapons, I LOVE YOU LONG TIME FIVE DOLLAS. (Caveat: not from the lionsroar.com site. I'm trying to corroborate their info.)
I'll post as I think of other things.
* Again with the gay, because it's a yaoi/boys'love-themed market we're going to be submitting to.
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mansexBL-themed fanwork. xDIt's going to be a bit before the pics are ready, though. I have to scan them in since they were taken during the Ye Olde Ancient Days when I didn't have a digital camera.
[EDIT: Wow, I messed up the code on my original comment. All strikethrough, w00t!]
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reading books about the Himalayas and avoidingworking on character designs at the moment. :Dno subject
Some of them might be what you would consider to be more "scenery" shots, but I tried to find photos that included craggy peaks, tundra, tarns, etc. I couldn't find any pics that included trails or people actually hiking (I guess I didn't consider it photo-worthy at the time. I regret it now too), but trails sort of disappear as you get closer to the peak of mountain anyway. Then you get to have fun on crumbling rock and tundra. ;D
And please try to ignore the teenage girls in some of the pictures. These were taken on summer-camp hiking/backpacking trips. They're all good people, really. (Sanzo Points to whoever can figure out which one I am in the group shots. xD)
I hope these are of help to you, even if it's only in a very miniscule way. I apologize for any inexplicable smudges in the pics; my scanner's probably due for retirement, or perhaps just a very thorough cleaning.
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1. Find a used-book dealer or such nearby you. There's a place called Half-Price Books nearby where I live, and it's proven to be a life-saver as far as references go.
2. Go there and look through their photography section or coffee-table section or whatever. While things like weapons will be harder, landscapes and Tibetan monks will be easy.
3.
4.
ProfitI wish I had my scanner, as I do have a book of interesting weapon poses. It's useful
even if they're corny as hellone of the guys has a disturbing crotch bulge in some of themhere's the damn amazon link: http://tinyurl.com/htxhzno subject
Ah. I may have to get that book. I've got the Posefile volume 1, but not that one. SPiff! Thanks! :D
* Except that the oversized books in the DS section - the travel narrative and description section, and the oversized books are all the big photo books - are in the part of the library whose ceiling tiles are being renovated at the moment, so although they're less than 50 feet away from my office door, the stacks they're in are mummified in plastic and I CAN'T GET TO THEM!!! *cries*
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Of course, one of my friends got *really* lucky and managed to procur a book of Yoshitaka Amano's work for dirt cheap as well. I need to make sure I get a good look at the artists' section in case deals like that come up.
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Ethnographic Edged Weapons General Discussion Forum (http://www.vikingsword.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Ethnographic+Edged+Weapons&number=1&DaysPrune=365&SUBMIT=Go)
I heard good things about this guy in my SCA days, so he's probably a good reference:
Therion Arms - Central Asia (http://therionarms.com/antiques/central_asia.shtml)
He's in Austin if you want to get a close look at some pieces.
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Also:
Mountain climbing pics & info (http://www.allnepal.com/climbing_mt_shisapangma_tibet.php)
A couple of good shots - make sure you check out the link to Mountain Odyssey, there's more there. (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_Rtp.zZxEwCcB3rqjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=122palrhd/EXP=1151213310/**http%3a//www.mountainodyssey.com/art/artist.html)
Going up a slope (http://www.climbingblind.org/LiveUpdate/XML/IMG_7602.jpg)
Gorgeous pics, including scenery, people, and links to more of the same. (http://www.rtoddking.com/chinasum2000_sg_yt.htm)
has a pretty good shot of a climber (http://www.nepalpanorama.com/images/india_trek.jpg)
Another climber pic (http://www.travelgolf.com/images/clubhouse/mountain-climbers.jpg)
Old pics, but the poses should be good (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_Rtv60pxEyh0BC_WjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12dlchmr1/EXP=1151214714/**http%3a//www.drizzle.com/%7ejtenlen/wacowlitz/climbers.html)
Climbing up (http://www.allianz.com/Az_Cnt/az/_any/cma/contents/211000/saObj_211155_Print_Bergsteiger.jpg)
Yep, another climber (http://www.utilikilts.com/LAtrip/LAMarc01/mountain.jpg)
Square in Kathmandu (http://img1.travelblog.org/Photos/874/2165/f/6254-Kathmandu-Durbar-Square-0.jpg)
Lots of pretty pics of Kathmandu, including various stupas. (http://www.mactreks.com/sight_seeing/kathmandu.htm)
Tourist pics of various areas - good street shots of Kathmandu, pics of buildings, etc. (http://www.martinguilfoyle.250x.com/index.htm)
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Videos of people wielding chain whips (aka 7-sectional whips; aka 9-sectional whips; aka Dragon Tail Whips) below. Do note that the flags and tassels you see on the ends of the whips in these videos are there purely for aesthetic reasons (and so that the judges and audience can actually see the action!), so in a real combat situation, those things wouldn't be there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5tYFmPNFhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7n45MGZOhE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBgg_guel9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3cnUGOi8LQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7AI0MDY6k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSt_6cUHLYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTtnyhPbrgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajoyiv2Uxsg (These techniques are done slowly, and much easier to follow, but it does look pretty awkward)
There are a couple of short clips with chain whip usage in http://www.beijingwushuteam.com/products/2002/
in the link under Volume 5: Other Weapons; download the trailer. Heck, check out all the trailers for some cool martial arts and weapons techniques.
Also, if you have access to these movies, they use a chain whip in Iron Monkey, and I believe there's a short scene with one in the Zhang Ziyi vs Michelle Yeoh cat fight near the last quarter of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
Here are a couple of static photos of people wielding the chain, but they're not very good quality:
http://www.cmaawushu.com/photos/normdaley/imagepages/image11.htm
http://www.cmaawushu.com/photos/normdaley/imagepages/image12.htm
http://www.cmaawushu.com/photos/normdaley/imagepages/image15.htm
For some photos of interesting and exotic weapons, check these out here:
Cool weapons:
http://www.martialartsmart.net/Exotic_Weapons.html
http://www.wle.com/store/w_long.html (also check out the links to other weapon types)
I also own a couple of weapons, such as the twin hook swords (wielded by Thunder during the ceremony in Big Trouble in Little China), kuan-do, a nine-section whip (though a cheaply made one), and a three-sectional staff, in case you ever want to stop by and take a look at them for reference.
As for the dorje or the kartika (the Sanskrit name for the Ego Chopper) being used as actual martial weapons (as opposed to symbolic "weapons"), you could reference http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/tantra_symbols.html
http://www.exoticindiaart.com/sculptures/ZI03, http://www.himalayanmart.com/tibetanritualimplements.php or http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/things/implements.htm perhaps? It's said that the dorje's design may be partially inspired by that of a weapon (a combination of a trident and mendicant staff), and the kartika is a knife by design. I really don't know the facts beyond what you see here, so if you want proof and you want to be historically accurate about whether or not they were actually used as real weapons, then I don't think I can help you past this point. :)
However, if you're willing to play fast and loose with the rules, then looking at the dorje from a practical standpoint, it's about as much of a weapon as you can make out of any short, heavy object with a tapered tip. I doubt it was designed as a melee weapon in mind, but that doesn't necessarily restrict it only for use in religious rituals. If I'm a Tibetan monk forced to defend myself against a swordsman, and the only thing I have in my hand is a dorje, you betcher booty I'm going to flail that sucker around like there's no tomorrow.
The kartika looks a bit unwieldy to be a decent weapon, but like the dorje, there's no reason that it can't be used as one. With a sharp edge and a deft touch, it can be as devastating as any object can be in the hands of a master.
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My writer knows a decent amount about southern Indian weapons and thus has equipped one of the characters with an urumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi). And boy am I glad I looked up that link again to post here, because for the first time I read all the way to the end of the page and found out that there's a movie with someone using an urumi, and thus it is now at the top of my Netflix queue.
At least one other character has a monk's key (Lde brdzus), which from the description sounds like a sharp knife-like thing (drawing on page 128 of this PDF (http://www.cwru.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/Study%20of%20Ldab%20Ldob.pdf)) on a long string. There's little description of how it's used other than it being thrown and retrieved, but it sounds to me like it could easily be extrapolated to chain whip techniques, from what litle I know of them.
Anyway, thanks! And I'm babbling because I've had four hours sleep before I ahd to see Mom off to the shuttle and will be crashing again shortly. XD
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At any rate, I find chain whips to be cool and may use one for the hell of it. :D
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Actually, you can easily find these yourself, but I'll save you the trouble. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGSF7yQkTNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uivo2LVz5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNksqLjuUwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YWdPEg10HY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdicybb-5b8
http://www.kungfuschool.com/Videogallery.htm
http://fireropedart.tribe.net/ (This one is a discussion group, which has video links and talks about how to turn them into flaming spectacles o_o)
But anyway, from your previous reply, I agree there are some moves that can be extrapolated from the chain whip in principle, but because of the vast difference in weight distribution, a lot of the horizontal circle techniques would probably be less feasible.
Hope that helps. Good luck with the project. :)
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