I seem to be posting a lot about comics lately...

[telophase]

...so here's a link to a post by Noah Berlatsky over on comiXology about bad superheroine cheesecake, titled "Adding Incompetence to Insult."

But more often, you get images like those above, where Star Sapphire's costume makes her look vulnerable, not tough…or the Marvel Divas cover, where everybody but Hellcat is making with the bedroom eyes, and the only threat is that Black Cat's costume may pinch so tightly that she actually pops apart at the waist, causing everything from the torso up to go swooshing about like a deflating balloon.

Comments

[telophase.livejournal.com]

The women's poses are engineered to show off their secondary sexual characteristics. They thrust out their breasts and asses, and the movement in the pose focuses on sensual curves instead of strong, solid power. And did you notice the focus on drawing female superheroes as sexy instead of, say, strong or fierce in the How To Draw pages? They stand in ways that are off-balance - in many pages STANDING ON TIPTOE - and that would cause them to be knocked flat on their asses if you gave them a push, unlike the male superheroes who are drawn in poses with solid stances.

Note that the male superheroes do not have to be attractive, but that an en tire chapter is devoted to making the women sexy. Not to mention that in the general "Here are the correct proportions for a woman, she is shows standing on tiptoe like she's wearing heels (http://pics.livejournal.com/ratcreature/pic/0008fd6h), with her breasts and putt protruding, and her hands in a horrible, horrible position. (There is NO REASON to hold your hands like that - and as that's a horrible way to make a fist and it makes your hands weak an vulnerable, it serious detracts from any impression of strength she might have otherwise. It's a girly pose, rather than a feminine pose.)

Note that the men standing in those positions in vito_excalibur's version all look weak and off-balance. That's because they are.

And yes: breasts are secondary sexual characteristics that are over-emphasized out of all proportion in a sexual manner in these drawings. That curved-back-protruding-chest pose is a pinup pose, and anyone posing like that is deliberately emphasizing their sexiness, not their strength.

[tprjones.livejournal.com]

Note that the male superheroes do not have to be attractive

Oh, but they usually do. Even the ones that don't are still absurdly muscular and would look just like any other superhero (i.e. supposed to be super-masculine and attractive) if it weren't for some sort of skin condition added on to try to make them look like a monster. With very very few rare exceptions do they ever actually make a misshapen hero actually misshapen (again, excepting that fact that they all are).

the movement in the pose focuses on sensual curves instead of strong, solid power

Here I agree. Female superheroes are almost always pictured this way. Just like male superheroes are almost always pictured in strong and solidly powerful poses of hyper-masculinity that are just as absurd.

I do agree with everything you have said about how women are portrayed. Really I do. I just see the same thing being done to the men.

This is all opinion on my part, and perhaps I am wrong. This I will admit. But ponder this: is a world where everyone is objectified in silly ways better than one where only one gender is? That's not ideal, sure, but it is a form of equality. To me it looks like that's the best we can hope for out of comics in general for awhile, and I think we are already there (although it doesn't seem to be a popular opinion).

[telophase.livejournal.com]

I agree the men are being objectified as well, but they're being objectified in ways that focus on their power and strength, and women are objectified in ways that focus on their sexuality and vulnerability.

ETA: To address your last point, objectification is part of human life. Sexual attraction is, in part, objectification, but in real life most people tend to indulge in it as only a part of their sexuality (and the ones who indulge in it as all tend to be jerks. Of both genders. :D). However, there's a power dynamic involved in sexualizing women superheroes that seriously undermines their characters. I am ALL ABOUT objectifying them as powerful: look at the picture representing Sarah Connor in this article (http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/05/08/the-all-time-top-10-list-of-best-and-worst-mothers-in-comics/). The artist went a bit overboard in masculinizing her shoulders and torso (and placed her neck too far to one side), but she is also standing in a solid, powerful, non-sexualized stance. Right above her, Linda Park West. Same thing. Debbie Grayson below Sarah Connor: hips tilted, but that's because she's balancing the weight of a baby. Her shoulders are strong and her gaze is direct. She's sexy without being sexualized.

[tprjones.livejournal.com]

Ah, I begin to understand. I see the hyper-masculinity of male superheros as being a very bad thing. They give people unrealistic depictions of male behavior, and most of the men I've known that have been hyper-masculine like that have been complete douches. The absurd strength and power of the superheroes - and how it is pictured as being used - is not something to live up to. It is something to avoid. And on the rare occasions when superheroes are pictured as being vulnerable, it is almost always about their strength being insuffient, instead of making note of their often deficient moral character or mental acuity.

That may be where my disagreement is coming from. I don't see that as a positive objectification any more than the simplification of female superheros to focus on their vulnerability. Both are atrocities to me.

However, you have located one thing on which we can agree: Sarah Conner is a hottie. :) But then I've always preferred powerful women (and I mean that about personality more than I do about physique).

[telophase.livejournal.com]

... instead of making note of their often deficient moral character or mental acuity.

And now we tie back in to my Sabretooth rant! :D

I think my attitudes towards the male objectification and the female objectification ties in with a long historical and literary tradition that, as a woman, I can't get away from, that emphasizes women's powerlessness. So when their sexuality is objectified, it's Yet Another Way to take it away - women can be superheroes, but they also have to be pinups. They can't just be superheroes, they have to be sex kittens as well.

I think my most favorite female character in all of comic/mangadom is Integra (http://steeldame.livejournal.com/profile) Hellsing (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b%2BTBh%2Bo1L.jpg). Strong, powerful, gifted with command presence, never backs down from a fight, and has a sense of humor. She's about the only one who'd make me rething this whole being straight thing. :D (Although in the anime they took away her sense of humor and turned her into a dour, dowdy, shell of a woman. Manga Integra FTW!)

[tprjones.livejournal.com]

She's about the only one who'd make me rethink this whole being straight thing. :D

I fully understand. For me, I can only reply with one name that does the same for me: Nathan Fillion

Well, okay, I have to admit there are a few others, but it's not too long of a list (maybe a few dozen or so), and he's right at the top. :)