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Thank you for the plant answers this weekend! Here's another question on a completely different topic... the UK!

Basically,

myrialux and I are planning on a trip to the UK sometime in October of this year. It'll be two weeks: while I find three weeks to be the perfect length for a vacation, Toby's only got two weeks available from his job. :)

So: interesting suggestions for things to see/do or places to go?

Plans so far: none definite. A general sense that we'll probably spend a few days in London during part of this, probably hop up* to the isle of Islay to tour the Laguvalin distillery** and find a guide to take us around and show us prehistoric ruins, seals, and whatever else is there, and hop over to Cardiff for a day of walking around in a geekery-induced haze. There's lots of places in between and around that we might stop off for a day or so, including Carmarthen in South Wales, as I spent a quarter at Trinity College there way back when. Or we might stick to those three. No idea.

Do not know yet if we will rent a car*** or stick to trains for the trip. I've a fondness, thanks to Mom, for hiring a private guide for a day in various places because that way we find things that we'd normally never find (an old quarry turned into a beautiful lake in North Wales, for one!). Not staying in either chain hotels or in hostels: I refuse to go to another country and stay in a place that I could stay in at home*****, and I am too damn old to stay in a hostel.******

Meetups with LJ/DW people are probably not in the cards, as Toby is even more introverted than I am in some ways and has no intention whatsoever of having dinner with people he doesn't know. :) I might be willing to have lunch/dinner with someone, but I'd rather not have it be lots of people I don't know (defined as more than three), as I am horribly shy IRL with people I don't know.

Likes/dislikes: Toby doesn't care about seeing any thing, really. His travel preference is just to wander around and absorb the ambiance of a place. But he's happy for me to tow him around to places I want to see, and we're both OK with not being together every minute of every day.

Not interested in sports, or in much shopping beyond books or interesting handcrafted stuff. Not so much music, either, unless there's a superb classical or offbeat concert. I've been to concerts at St Martin's in the Fields before, and we're going to consider that, and if the Ukelele Orchestra of Great Britain had a concert scheduled in October, we'd be there, but as their website says they're in Germany in October, it probably won't happen. I like history and art, especially pre-WWII, touring historic houses, nifty landscape and animals. Toby likes science and computers ~~and Doctor Who, but we will be in Cardiff for that!~~ - we're definitely going to the Science Museum in London so he can take a look at the difference engine there.

Also: GOOD FOOD. Any restaurants you highly recommend will be seriously considered!

Stuff off the beaten track, also (see that lake in North Wales, for example). Assume that I've seen most of the average tourist stuff already and that Toby doesn't care. I might drag him to the Tower of London to see the ravens, but have already seen the rest of it and he doesn't care.

--
* We live in Texas. We're allowed to consider travel from one end of the UK to the other a mere hop.

** Toby's current favorite scotch; the only scotch I actually like. And I've never been to that side of Scotland and want to see what it's like. The distillery is an excuse. :D

*** Which requires me to get over my terror at driving on the wrong side of the road**** and trying to learn what all the traffic signs and signals are.

**** From my point of view.

***** Toby doesn't truly understand, I think, but is amused by it and happy to go along with me.

****** Actually, I was too damn old at 21, when I stayed the one and only hostel I have ever stayed in. I just really hate them, and enjoying my accommodations is part of travel for me: I'd rather stay in a quaint B&B, guest house, or small locally-owned hotel than a chain or hostel. I fail to understand the sort of person who would skimp on food and accommodation to save money when travelling, because to me they're an integral part of it. To each his own.

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Have a lovely time! I know, October, but it's still exciting.

hmm. The city wall in Conwy and castle at Caernarfon impressed me--they're quite near each other, even by UK standards. Also in Caernarfon, or at least, it was still open in 1997: awesome, sad, tiny Roman history museum alongside unsurfaced Roman remains (still covered over with grass and dirt). Might not be worth the detour alone, and from the sound of things you might've seen them already, anyway. :)

My restaurant experiences are 5-12 years out of date. There was a tasty and quiet/unassuming Ethiopian place about a block from King's Cross station, northeastish of that confusing intersection where Euston Rd turns into Gray's Inn Rd, but I can't remember whether it was on York or Caledonian. There's also some decent food amongst the student-ish places near KCL and University of London, in the Judd/Hunter-Marchmont-Woburn Pl stretch immediately above Russell Square; North Sea Fish in Leigh St (visible on Google Maps) was pretty decent, too. But then, both times I was in London, it was for research, so I ate BL cafe sandwiches and convenience-shop yogurt + wraps, because I was poor poor poor. :P

I'm usually in the UK in December. And the one time I went there in the summer, it ended up being the first year to hit 100°F in a century!

October should be balmy in comparison! Although it'll probably instead be full of gales and tornadoes, or something.

How long a trip do you plan?

It takes longer to travel between points in the UK than you would expect. Highways are congested and side roads, although preferable in many ways, take longer. Unless you fly, it's hard to "pop up" to places. To get to Cardiff from London, allocate a travel day. Or several (say, 3) if you plan to stop to look at stuff on the way---and there is a lot worth seeing.

On accommodations, some of the chain places are fine, really. B&Bs can be great, I've used a lot of them. I've used a lot of small pub-hotels, they can be quite variable but in general offer comfort and pleasant ambience at what was a reasonable price a few years ago. Variable though... There was one in Thames where none of the bedrooms' doors could be locked...

Just spending two weeks knocking around Scotland and the Isles would be pretty spectacular at that time of year. Maybe dip down into north England. You can take ferries to a bunch of places too.

If your passenger is willing to chant "Stay to the left, bear left" at crucial moments in rotaries and intersections, you should be fine with driving.

I have been to the UK multiple times in the past two decades, on trips that hit all three corners of the main island, just like this one. No worries on that account. :) (It helps that I adore train travel and multiple hours sitting on a train staring out the window is something I'm looking forward to experiencing again.) My first solo trip around the UK, after the three months I spent in Carmarthen, in South Wales, consisted of the train to Glasgow, to Inverness, to Edinburgh, to York, then five days in London, all within ten days.

We'll be there for two weeks, as I said.

but seriously seriously, you can't hop from Islay to Cardiff in less than about 24 hours' non-stop travel.

Which is not to say it can't be done--just that you need to factor in the travel time! Maybe break the journey in Edinburgh or Glasgow? Or even just some remote village in between?

Huh. The train from Carmarthen to Glasgow via Cardiff and Bristol took me about eight hours in 1991; is there something about the travel from Islay to Glasgow that takes sixteen hours?

(And yes, I do expect we'll be breaking the journey somewhere! It's all in that pleasant pre-trip fuzzy planning stage where we're gathering all sorts of ideas, then will settle on what we're actually going to do later. Nothing I typed above is set.)

awww, no doubt I'm being pessimistic. But you've got a substantial ferry trip from Islay to the mainland, and then goodness knows how you get back from Campbeltown or wherever the port is to Glasgow--I can't believe the total journey time is much less than three hours, which doesn't count waiting around for connections. The ferry timetables tend to switch over to winter hours either end of September or end of October, running much less frequently than they do in summer, so you should research that ahead of time.

it won't literally take you 24 hours, but it will eat at least a day in traveling.

plus the trains are often late or delayed... but that's "learned" British pessimism!

I'm just jealous 'cause you're plannign a road trip.

If you haven't seen Cardiff Castle, it's worth seeing. I found Avesbury and its stone circle to be a nice contrast to the much more visited Stonehenge (it was a nice little town that you can see in about half a day). Stratford-on-Avon is a pretty city, even if you don't go to the theater. If you're headed up to Scotland, you could go see the William Wallace Memorial, in Stirling.

Did you get to West Kennet Long Barrow, just outside of Avebury and across the road from Silbury Hill? Prehistoric barrow-grave and you can actually walk inside it. :D

Is the Wallace Memorial the...uh... towering shaft of pale stone, thrusting up from the upper side of a hill?

not to mention Stirling Castle five five miles across the valley!

I have to say Cambridge, because I grew up an hour away, and came back here after 15 years in Manchester. It's the most beautiful city I know, there's everything from quirky co-op shops to high-end jewellers & art, and of course there are all the colleges to look around. And punting to Grantchester. And the Orchard (http://www.orchard-grantchester.com/) *at* Grantchester (sadly inaccessible from punt).

Also Edinburgh, for the castle, the whisky museum, the Royal Mile, Arthur's Seat, and some of the best views in the country.

Green Knowe! (http://www.greenknowe.co.uk/) Go see Green Knowe! (OK, OK, the Manor at Hemingford Grey.) If you've read the books, it's full of all the stuff that was in them, and if you haven't (you should), it's still a house that has been continuously inhabited since the 1100s, with amazing Norman architecture and distinct layers of other things in a way you can really see. Plus rose garden and full of L.M. Boston's homemade patchwork quilts, which would make a museum all by themselves.

I've never been to Britain, but it's on my list of places I would refuse to leave the area without seeing.

Note that you do have to make an appointment.

Oooh, now that's an idea! (I spent many happy hours in childhood reading the Green Knowe books. XD)

eeee what a good idea! I have been there a couple of times and it is wonderful. They have probably got a slicker operation going now than they did when I first went there.

http://www.greenknowe.co.uk/

*envyenvy* I love, LOVE traveling in Great Britain... though 90% of the trips I took there were when I was little and my parents handled all arrangements, so I don't know or remember as much as I might had those trips been made as an adult. Still!

When in London, one of the VERY BEST things we did were walking tours via the company London Walks; they are wonderful tours and getting into one is as easy as showing up at the meeting place. I've been on their Shakespeare's London walk and it was fascinating and included a boat ride on the Thames. They have walks on every topic from history to pop culture. Really, really good stuff.

I would also drop in a rec for the British Library - they have a public exhibit area where you can see many awesome tomes, including some of Leonardo da Vinci's notebooks and things.

I will also second the train-travel being... somewhat less than idyllic? If you plan it right it can go smooth as silk, but if you fuck up at any point you can sign yourself up for Waiting Hell. Being two minutes late at one end of a day trip to Oxford (from London) resulted in it taking SIX HOURS to get to Oxford. It was really awful. This isn't to say that you can't travel by train and have it be fun times, you can, just be aware that it's almost too easy to end up in Waiting Hell.

As for food, this is possibly the least authentic recommendation, but I really, really like the Wagamama chain of Asian fusion noodle bars. They are really delicious! I am also quite fond of pub grub, though I have no specific recs on that front. Oh, wait - I will say the Cafe in the Crypt at St. Martin's in the Fields is actually pretty awesome. It's not pub grub per se but it is tasty and the atmosphere is great.

(Also, I love the Science Museum. Jealous. Be sure to wave at Babbage's brain! They have it. In a jar, I mean.)

edit: On reading the comments, I see you've been before - so a lot of this might be old news. Oh well! I'm still envious. ;)

Edited 2010-02-02 02:01 (UTC)

You asked about food, and someone above mentioned Stirling, which prompted me to emerge from lurkerdom and recommend Clive Ramsay's Deli, a cafe/restaurant/deli (it's a shop combined with an eat-in section, with lots of local/fresh foods) in Bridge of Allan, just outside Stirling. I had an amazing meal of vegetarian sausages in whiskey sauce on mashed potato, which I realise may sound absolutely appalling and is not the sort of thing I normally order but tasted incredible. I can also recommend the Ubiquitous Chip in Glasgow (great porridge) and the Loch Fyne Oyster Bar/Restaurant at Loch Fyne, which does sustainable and tasty seafood.

Things that I most enjoyed: paying 5 pounds to be a groundling at the London Globe and watch Pericles, a two-day bike tour of Northumberland in which a bunch of us zoomed around various tiny villages, historic houses, old mills and the Holy Island of Lindisfarne (with the tide out!), and touring Cornwall with two friends, a hired car, and a charmingly non-specific map (ooh. Have you been to the Eden Project in Cornwall?).

Thing that I wanted to do and didn't have time for: one of those National Trust weekends where you get taught how to build dry stone walls or stay in a lighthouse or whatever.

Have a great trip!

see (that was me mentioning stirling)-- you should just go to Scotland!

It is obviously a sign that despite spending two years living in England all my food recs are for Scotland :) (well, that and my inability to remember *names*. I can give street directions and external frontage descriptions for good cafes in Newcastle...)

HAGGIS! hahahahaha

I've been trying to remember what I read about maps recently and finally shook it loose. The Ordnance Survey has some map stuff online (http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/). It is a little buggy (I haven't had good success getting more than a couple results at a time.)

In London, Sir John Soane's museum has that wonderful, claustrophobic collector's-house completeness that the Gardner Museum in Boston and other single-purpose residence-turned-cabinet-of-curiosities share.

Are you into Roman ruins and remains? There is some fantastic stuff near Carmarthen, which you probably know about already; it has both coolness value and atmospheric wandering-around value IMO. When

nineweaving and I were sightseeing in the vicinity, we climbed a hill purporting to be Bryn Myrddin, in the middle of a rather nice farm, which we found satisfying. There are of course stone circles all over the place, but there are also some even niftier places now where e.g. the remains of ancient drowned forests are being uncovered by the sea.

Possibly checking the National Trust (and English Heritage) for sites of interest---prehistoric, historic, natural beauty---would be helpful, so that if you are driving, you will know when to divert to e.g. a spectacular beach. For some models of Garmin (at least, possibly others) GPS, you can get UK maps now and load them in with your US ones.

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