Bechdel test question?

[telophase]

So...if two women who are having a conversation are detectives and the conversation they're having is about a male suspect and is non-personal, does that count as passing or not? Still theoretical as the two detectives in question then started discussing a male colleague, but the question occurred to me.

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Comments

[lady_ganesh]

I would say no, because in theory there could be female suspects/victims/etc.

[rachelmanija]

I think it fails in letter but passes in spirit.

[ginny_t]

I agree. Also, I'm a stickler.

[brigdh]

I was going to say yes, but actually, I really like this reasoning. So I agree!

[green_knight]

If they're talking about work, I'd say it passes.

[gweniveeve.livejournal.com]

I think it would depend on the content of the discussion. As in, could they just as easily be talking about a female suspect?

[cicer.livejournal.com]

I think it would pass. It's a business-related conversation, as opposed to a personal/romantic one. Plus, it shows to two women in a professional role, so that's nice.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

I don't think so--the world is still revolving around guys. If that's the only shot a book or movie has at passing, it's a lost cause. I don't think it passes in letter or spirit.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

In other words, it seems to me that if every scene somehow winds up having a male linchpin, visible or not, romantic/personal or not (and it's not excused by actual historical circumstances, e. g. the whole thing is set on a military ship of a certain era), then it doesn't pass.

[coraa.livejournal.com]

I tend to count it.

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

I've wondered that. I think that, at this point, if the male suspect is not and will never be a romantic/sexual interest for either of them, I pass it. Grudgingly. :/

[telophase.livejournal.com]

I'd amend that to something a little looser, in that if the driving force of the conversation is the relationship of either one of them to the man in question, then it doesn't pass.

In this case I'm thinking, specifically, of a scene in New Tricks where Sandra Pullman, the detective superintendent, is questioning a woman about her father's death years ago. The conversation itself revolves around the woman's relationship with her father, and thus, even though it's something that would normally occur within the working day of the detective, I don't consider it passing because it's all about the woman defining herself by her father's actions.

OTOH, I'd be more inclined to let a conversation between a female detective and a female witness/victim pass even if the assailant were male if it were obvious that neither of them were defining themselves by him.

[selenite.livejournal.com]

Yeah, marginal pass. But you have some tolerance or Alien is the only movie you get.